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But wait! There’s more: The Salvation Army ” Gays need to be put to death”

sap 2 coverSalvation Army says “Gays need to be put to death,” is an article that we have posted , which has been getting a lot of backlash. Many people who stand up for the charity, voiced their opinions and I have heard you loud and clear.

Since 2001, TSA has been making it clear that they do not support the LGBTQ community, and they do not support gay marriage. In 2001, The Washington Post reported ;

An internal document from the Salvation Army says the charity has a “firm commitment” from the Bush administration for a national regulation shielding it and other religious charities from city and state laws barring discrimination against gays and lesbians.

“The Salvation Army never discriminates in whom it serves,”

says senior official George Hood,

“but being forced to hire gays really begins to chew away at the theological fabric of who we are.”sap2

The Bush administration turned down The Salvation Army’s request.

In early 2004, The Salvation Army threatened to shut down all of their soup kitchens, which feed the homeless if Mayor Michael Bloomberg enforces a new ordinance requiring all groups with city contracts to offer benefits to the same-sex partners of employees.

In late 2011, Bil Browning at ” The Bilerico Project” promoted a drive encouraging gay-rights supporters to give their holiday donations to other charities that don’t

“actively discriminate against the LGBT community”

Bill Browning posted in his blog about how he was turned away from The Salvation Army, when he and his partner were sap 2 1in need stating;

“When a former boyfriend and I were homeless, the Salvation Army refused to help us unless we broke up and left the “sinful homosexual lifestyle” behind. We slept on the street and they didn’t help when we declined to break up at their insistence. I’ve seen the discrimination the Salvation Army preaches first hand..”

The main focus of my last article was of Major Andrew Craibe, a spokesperson for The Salvation Army with him stating that practicing homosexuals

“deserve to die. We have an alignment to the Scriptures, but that’s our belief.”

The Salvation Army has released a statement apologizing for Craibes comments, stating it was a

“miscommunication and he was not referring to physical death but spiritual death.”

According to The Salvation Army’s website, they state;

“Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to sap 2 3embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.”

Ex Employee of The Salvation Army Danielle Morantez,

“states that she was fired from her job as a caseworker with the Salvation Army of Burlington, Vermont because she came out to them as bisexual and raised concerns about sections in their employee handbook relating to sexual orientation and employment discrimination.”

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their religions. Although a charity should not be able to discriminate against a group of people. There are a lot more accounts of discrimination against them as a charity. I do not understand why a charity would turn someone away, that is in need just because of who they love. I welcome everybody’s opinions on this matter.


Note to see our original story please go here:

About David Volz

David is the Managing Editor here at TGV News. He currently lives in Philadelphia and is a 2006 LCCC graduate . He recently got married in Central Park NYC , to his partner Greg . In his free time he enjoys the outdoors , beaches , movies , music and volunteering . David is an Animal lover , who enjoys helping out the ASPCA . He would also like to take a road trip , and discover the US .


  1. Well, I believe that pretty much sums it up. The Sally Anns are gay bashing homophobes,

    • I don’t think it’s fair that people are judging an organization based on some of it’s chains. Not fair at all that the chains that are free of this hatred are getting painted with the same generalizations because of articles like this. Go out and experience for your own before you with draw your donations as I know of many accounts where my towns Salvation Army was nothing but accepting, loving and kind to the people of the community. Regardless of sexual orientation. This makes me so sad to read that you all will take one persons actions and discriminate against them all without doing a little more digging.

      • Anna, You are attempting to twist the facts; it’s not “some of their chains”.

        The national Salvation Army has repeatedly said they discriminate against gays within their organization, although they claim that they do not discriminate in providing services.

        • You know what, dont believe every news article with photos on it either that may show something thats a lie, or to make it worse, I wouldnt put it past the gay activists and I am a gay christian, to of MADE these photos themselves, does anyone actually believe these are real salvation army folks with these signs? Looks like a set up to me, you know what people gays or christians, LET NONE DECEIVE YOU, too many wicked folks out there in all sorts of “clothing”

          • Missy, Who are you talking to? I didn’t say anything about the photo.

          • @Missy – I thought the same thing, I am also a lesbian but I can not imagine many places, (if any) actually telling people not to give if they support the LGBT community. Sadly, people in TSA, many anyway, are following what I would call distortions and out of context preachings of the bible. Can’t remember the exact quote in the OT that says if a man looks lustfully or longingly or some such thing, at another woman that his eyes should be put out, and I believe the same went for women. Oh hell, we would have an awful lot of blind people walking the earth if we help true to every bible verse. Things change…

          • I think the “don’t give if you support LGBT rights” sign was being held by someone standing NEAR the Salvation Army to prevent people from accidentally contributing to something they don’t believe in, not one of the bell ringers themselves.

        • In the Bible it says to love everyone so it shouldn’t matter about someones gender. Boy I know this is a hot topic and all but what about the college professor that went on camera to say that all white people should be eliminated? How come no one talks about that? And the man still has his job

      • Withdrawing our donations is not just about the actions or opinions of one person within the organization, it is that of the majority of those within that organization. There are more cases that come to light every day of the denial of services as mistreatment of members of our community all across the country, so it is perhaps you that should go out ans experience the discrimination of that organization first hand and realize that the members of that organization in your community is likely the only exception to their hatred.

      • I agree, something is really sinister going on with all of this, both sides, im not sure the devil himself isnt behind all of this to create much more hate and problems, and divisions. Ive stuidied most denominations and most of them are also guilty of death, because the occult has moved in full force, they are doing christian witchcrafts and calling it bible names etc. But the whole thing is this, even if the salvation army is guilty, gays should demonistrate better christian behavior by not repaying evil with evil, maybe God will bless them instead, for ACTUALLY doing what he said.

      • I have to agree with you Anna it is terrible that we are taking a few experiences and applying them to a complete entity. I have been a member of the Salvation Army for over 20 years. I have become a soldier, have been a former employee, and a volunteer with the organization. It’s been stated in this and the previous article that this is taught to people like me and that is untrue. I have never been taught this. While I myself am not a member of the LGBT community I have several close personal friends who are, a few of them being members of the church I attend. Which is a TSA church. When taking applications for services the question of onese sexuality is not brought up and makes no difference in a person getting aid in my area at least. Sorry but I see this article very differently than most I see it as a way to attack an organization and promote hate by saying that organization is promoting hate. This article is full of malice and is inciting hate towards a group of HUMANS which every single on of us belong to that group regardless of personal beliefs, relationships, and where we come from in life. I’m sorry but until we all stop trying to put other groups of people down for their beliefs to promote our own this world is not going to get any better. I am very sad about this article because I see it promoting hate.

        • Nonsense. Withdrawing support from an organization that discriminates is not hateful.

          • This is NONSENSE I come from a generation of Salvationist and we are not Taught to not help someone. IN Fact are Goal is to Help and everyone with a hand and Heart of God .. Not to change anyone but to Help Pray with and for them for God to lead in their lives .. If you have not been around the army check out there programs for kids adults women not just the give outs and free help check out the worship part and I know for a fact it is not being taught ! Help and Love anyone …

      • Anna–are you an absolute dolt. This is the stance of the organization. Not everyone within this group endorses death to LGBT persons. However, their misunderstanding of human sexuality and basic human principles of the right to live freely as persons, despite one’s dumb religious belief. Frankly, I am able to paint this picture because someone within the absolutely stupid group has requested death to LGBT persons. Wake up, you dummy.

        • The TSA does not discriminate, the colorodo Floods no one was turned away for Sexuallity, The rehabs no one turned away for being Gay, The churches no one is turned away for being gay, The Salvation Army loves everyone just as Jesus does.

        • RSG … you act like you know everything about the Salvation Army when in truth, you have never walked through the doors of one. To call Anna a dolt and a dummy shows what type of person you are. I was raised in a Salvation Army family and happily was a member for 20+ years. My brother is gay and I wasn’t raised thinking he should be killed. Sexuality is each persons choice. As for you, you hateful Bayard. I would slap the shot out of you if I ever met you. You spread hatred and false information to make yourself feel better. You call people names because they don’t agree with you. I don’t think gays, lesbians, queers, homosexuality, tags, or whatever you call them should be killed. I think narrow minded assailed like you should. You are probably Catholic and think all priests should be able to get away with molesting young boys. Go hide in a dark room and ducking die you waste of life.

      • But what you’re not realizing is that they’re NOT “chains” they are a religious group. Although some of the local Sally Ann’s where you shop may be willing to let gays shop there, they as an organization REFUSE to help any gay/lesbian people with the money that they collect. There’s a big difference between one or two people within an organization being nice to gays and a religion-wide belief that homosexuals are lesser people; that they don’t deserve the help that the SA offers to others. The bible condemns many things much more strongly than the couple misappropriated verses used to slam gays, yet the SA helps drunks, helps divorced people, etc.

    • Well not everyone that IS ACCEPTING is good and has your true interests at heart because now you have gays flocking to the false religions, the whore of babylon and its seven daughters, the seducers with king pin Pope at the Head, a horrible trap is being set for the masses and gays are running right into it.

      • Yeah, Missy, you’re coming off as just a teensy bit too batshit crazy to pay attention to any more.

      • Missy, we are not talking about declaring war on the Salvation Army, we are simply pulling our donations from them because it is not in our best interest to support a “Christian Charity” who will not support every person without discrimination in their true time of need.

        • I’m confused by something. Why is it to say that a certain act or pattern of behavior is wrong is considered hateful? So when I tell my daughter that to run into traffic is wrong I am being hateful? I realize that there are those of many different communities that don’t want to hear that their actions are wrong or not good for themselves or are otherwise destructive, but to tell someone that they may be irrepressibly damaging themselves is not hate.

      • cool story bro… did you hear the one about the crazy guy who almost kill his son because some voice in his head told him to? though my all time fave is about the jobless hippy who hung around with a bunch of rough dudes whore throwing a huge party a giving everyone booze and munchies.

  2. On behalf of The Salvation Army, we find that unfortunately there are many misperceptions about the organization and that many of them are born out of baseless or completely false information. I want to add this blog to your online discussion, which we posted last summer following the Australian radio interview. I hope some will read it and understand the true nature of the organization, which was not represented by the interview.

    • Jennifer,
      Thank you for your comment. As the Chief Editor we are open to doing an interview with the Salvation Army and their current views on the matter. As I am sure you have read from both our articles and the many points of view of our readers that it was not just one or two actions that have made our community feel this way. If you or someone from the Salvation Army is interested in doing an interview please email me at and I would be happy to coordinate that.


    • Jennifer thank you for your comment. This article i based off of a timeline of the actions from The Salvation Army. I also included some of peoples personal experiences with TSA. I hope that you understand where we are coming from with this article. Once again, I thank you for commenting.

    • You think Salvation Army’s problem is “misperceptions”? To the contrary, their problem is that people are discovering the truth:

    • Jennifer, I’m sure you have good intentions to protect your organization from age-old, well deserved backlash.

      I would challange TSA to have a public forum with the people of their choice and the LGBT community. Unscripted (which is what the response obviously is), answering questions face-to-face. Reading is one thing. Watching people squirm in their chair, facial expressions, etc. tell all.

      Where TSA may not want people put to death, so far, nothing is convincing me that TSA is all of a sudden so liberal.

      Actions speak louder than words (on a page, avoiding TRUE interaction)

      Ball’s in TSA’s court.

      This promises to be an interesting holiday season to come from the South

  3. I have a question (I read both stories). Does the Salvation Army take ANY money or tax breaks from the US Government at all? Do they hire American Citizens who are protected by our Constitution as well as protected by laws which do not allow discrimination in hiring and firing practices? If yes to either then they should be heavily fined for discriminating, they should be sued by any who lost their job for their personal beliefs or lifestyle or who they love. If they don’t like it, they need to close down in the states that protect people regardless of race, age, gender and sexual orientation.

    Salvation Army makes me sick. They aren’t a Charity. They are hate-mongers.

    • That would be cool, except Not every state in the Union protects againt sexual orientation discrimination. for example. Here in Ohio, I can be fired for being gay, and nothing can be done about it. I’ve personally had TSA turn me away because of who I love. forget that shizz. closed minded Republican assholes

      • discrimination against a charity for their beliefs smells like hypocrisy to me.liberals dont see any value in truth.making mountains out of mole hills.

      • You shouldn’t generalize. Just like not all liberals support gay rights not all republicans are crazy religious fanatics that discriminate. There seems to be no party that is in the middle. Both have their share of crazies.

  4. I don’t support the salvation army because we have severely different beliefs. I believe that every single person should be treated equally… they don’t. To put it simply.

    BUT… they are a charity, and like all charities they have a right to support or not support whoever they want. There are charities that only support women, or black people, or Jewish people, or disabled people… if they want to only support straight Christians, they have as much a right to that decision as any other charity.

    But if they are breaking laws, then of course someone should crack down on them. If they want the government to help them out, they need to follow the rules.

    • I won’t give money to the Salvation Army because of what they believe. I also don’t give money to the United Negro College Fund, the KKK, or any other group that promotes discrimination or hatred of any kind to anyone. They have every right to not help anyone in the LGBT community however they should be made to state that they will not help anyone that is LGBT at every collection site they have so people can be informed before they donate to them.

  5. In addition to their homophobia, they aren’t even fair to their own employees. About 20 TSA workers in Las Vegas were terminated a few months ago and their housing clients left homeless due to budget cuts over blatant mismanagement of government funds. Being a religious organization, the TSA wasn’t required to pay into the Nevada unemployment fund, so their fired staff members were left with nothing. No severance, no notice and no unemployment checks.

  6. Dude, the Bible is clear on what human relations should consist of. I am NO WAY going to argue with GOD – You are an idiot to think otherwise. God made the rules and people either abide or go to Hell – pretty simple – or perhaps you think that you are above God and the scriptures? Ummm – NO. God doesn’t care if it is 500 BC or 2013 AD -still the same decree and laws!!! Get a Clue stupid!!!

    • And Brenda takes the award for “Stereotypical Christian Spewing Hate”.

      • HATE? Why is anyone who cares to speak truth all of a sudden declared to be hateful? Yes, the medium and verbiage leaves a lot to be desired, but the underlying message is not hateful.

        To be hateful would require someone to be quiet and let others just meander down the path that leads to destruction.

    • Which scriptures, Brenda? The 1/3 that the early christian church chose to keep? They burned or buried 2/3 or the original Bible, which included the Gnostic scriptures, which Jesus taught and told the rest of the story they didn’t want anyone to know about! And they forced under threat of death the mis-translation of the 1/3 of the bible they allowed. But you probably didn’t know that, did you?? Sheep don’t do research for themselves, they just blindly follow the “shepard”!

    • can you prove that your so called GOD Wrote those words, or are you just another idiot who blindly believes everything they read?

    • I have a question for you. Did God write the bible or did humans write it? God is suppose to love everyone. Now if it was humans that wrote it then they could write what they liked. So that means I could write something and call it a bible and have a totally different ending. It’s what you want to believe in. Doesn’t give you the right to pass judgment on another human being for being gay or straight.

      • The answer to your question is that God used humans to write what He wanted written. Since I wasn’t there I can’t tell you how it was done, just that the original autographs are divinely inspired.

        How else do you explain that there are fifty something different books, written by different parts of the socioeconomic scale, in times of war and in times of peace, that has as its core message the fact that the sovereign God loves you and has paid for our sins.

    • The Bible is a great story that was written by a man’s hand, not God’s, that is why it is free to interpretation.

    • I feel really bad for you… It really must suck that you cant think for yourself in life and have to “Be Told” by a book how to think and feel. The funny thing is, you know darn well all the men of the Salvation Army,Priests of the Catholics,Evangelists etc..(and probably some of the women to, including yourself) have fantasized about 2 women together (sorry,its human nature)….then turn around and preach how it is a sin….so many Hippocrates out there its pathetic!!

    • So I suppose you do not eat shellfish, or pork, either, right ? Because the Bible says you aren’t supposed to…..

      • @Chuck:

        If you want to take things out of context and interpretive principles, then yes you are correct. If you want to stop abusing scripture to defend your own incorrect actions/beliefs, then the answer is going to be different…

      • And don’t forget divorce, and women wearing pants, and pre-marital sex. Pretty sure those are all just as bad as the butt sex.

    • I grew up in a christian family but when I started thinking for myself I realized that many of the beliefs that they held are out-dated especially since the “good” book is written by HUMANS. Who knows if or what it said forever so long ago but there are so many variations out there that I just see it as MORAL stories. I’m transgender in a relationship with an accepting woman who loves me and who I love…. Half her family is mormon but yet they still accept us as a couple….
      Its organizations like this that make our heart breaks and the people who run them. Just reading between the lines you can see where they truly stand. That’s all I gotta say.

    • Oh Brenda – you poor misbegotten fool. You’ve fallen right into the trap; you believe the misinterpretations that have been shoved down the church’s throats for so many years. You’ve chosen to believe what ignorant generations before you have been lazy enough to believe; heaven forbid you (or the said lazy predecessors) open the bible, open your heart and actually learn something. The bible, in fact, isn’t nearly as clear as you’ve ignorantly chosen to believe. If you’d like to point out some of your verses that so openly and conclusively condemn homosexuality, I’d be more than happy to discuss it, verse for verse (and I’ll be happy to throw in a few other lessons, free of charge). Go ahead…gimme a verse :)

    • Perhaps, but God didn’t write the bible.

      I love Christian hypocrisy. When it comes to defending Christianity it’s all about how Jesus preaches love and forgiveness, even to those that least deserve it.

      When it comes to people who don’t believe exactly the same rules, Christians are very quick to condemn. It must be great to be able to choose to be assholes, and know that at least Jesus loves you and everybody else. Except well gays, Muslims, jews, Buddhists, etc. All based on what some other assholes wrote nearly two thousand years ago.

      Come to think of it, it sounds similar to the people who blindly followed the doctrine of a certain German dictator in the mid-1900′s.

      If you want to follow the word of Jesus I would suggest you stop taking every word of the old testament as blatant fact, and instead adhere to common human decency, because treating people like shit will put you in hell.

  7. I learned from God’s word that I am to love all people. And it’s not up to me to judge people, God does. God says for us to win people over to Christ with love, God’s love, unconditional love. How are we going to do that if we choose to ignore people that we are judging?

    • You (and people like you) are the reason I constantly bug people to say “extremists” instead of “Christians” when things like gay rights come up… not all Christians are bad, some of them still remember what it means to be Christian.

    • i agree and ditto your response. But i also want to say “when jesus fed his people with the fishes and loaves he never stopped to ask sexual orientation. He just fed the people and bore witness of God to Them. So they have freedom of choice to follow and be influenced by his good works and so we should be Christ Like too. “Christian” and love one another. Let the judging be done by the only one that can give SALVATION. Amen

  8. “A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved.”

  9. The original article is a good example of the misinformation that finds itself on the internet and is then spread. The SA does NOT believe in putting gays to death. See

  10. When I was doing my practicum for Counselling I was originally supposed to work with the Salvation Army. It was pretty insane the things the manager said to me (in the presence of my prof).
    She expressed concern that I was a Jew and therefore they couldn’t be certain I would be able to uphold the Christian ethics of the association. She also went on to say some pretty ignorant things about the Middle East in general, so much so that I was so offended by the end of the interview that I filed a complaint with the school to get a new placement.

    Granted, this was one person and not necessarily the opinion of the group as a whole, but when you appoint ignorant people into positions of management, it is your duty to address this so it does not tarnish the name of the agency.

    • I have the same concern about my practicum as well and I plan to speak with the program placement coordinator prior to her placing for the next practicum. I am usually a really nice guy but if I was faced with that kind of ignorance I would not be able to keep my cool.

  11. The salvation army has been my church…my home for almost 9 yrs. i went to church, helped make meals, ring bells, ive even worked at one of their summer camps. my officers and their family accepted me into their family as if i was their own. they and anyonr else i have met from tsa has shown me nothing but compassion since the first day i walked into that church. i just recently came out as gay a year ago,…it hasnt changed a thing…they still treat me the exact same. im not sure who this guy is but i’d love to have a word with him. he’s sposed to be a spokes person for tsa? Sounds to me like they need a better one. i personalky think my officer Major Tim and Barb Miller would make amazing spokes people. They would tell you all about tsa beliefs and would show everyone what it truelly feels like to be loved regardless of your sexual oriention. sounds like too many of you ‘christians’ have forgotten the true meaning of ‘christianity’. you all should come up to the northern statea and take some lessons.

  12. As a white, straight, born-again Christian, I know God and the Lord welcome all people. To adopt a personal agenda excluding a segment of society goes against the Lord’s teachings, and to *blame* it on Scripture is a twisting of the Bible as a whole.

    I have always donated to the kettles and the organization, but no more. TSA is clearly no better than the Westboro Baptist Church.

    • Nice comparison to Westboro. Why don’t you talk to some of your war veterans and see how they were treated by the Salvation Army. Westboro pickets funerals of dead soldiers saying they got what they deserved. TSA serves them – in war zones. TSA serves communities in crisis. They are usually one of the first organizations on scene in any disaster situation, serving those who have lost homes, etc as well as the rescue workers helping the situation. They don’t ask first if the individual is gay or straight. They don’t refuse food or beverage on site to anyone of any religious affiliation, sexual orientation or race. That is what your kettle money supports.
      I recently saw an article claiming that pedophilia is a sexual orientation. Adults who want to be involved with children/teens is now being called “orientation.” Oh, and many of them are not interested in same sex children, they consider themselves straight. So do we stop calling that a sin next? Why should a Christian organization change what they have always believed because some people in society have decided that what has been sin for two thousand years doesn’t have to be a sin any more?
      So – if you lose your house in a fire, tornado, hurricane, etc. go pay the Red Cross for your coffee and sandwich. Because if you go to the Salvation Army truck for help, you, too are just being a hypocrite.

      • And just to add to my previous comment. I do not attend the Salvation Army church, I am a member of a different denomination. I did however, work in the Salvation Army thrift store many years ago. There were 4 men on staff who drove the trucks and 1 in the store doing appliance repairs. Of those 5 men, 2 were openly gay living with partners, and 1 was surgically transgendered. They were treated with respect by the Salvation Army officers who were responsible for the store and never disrespected because of their life and the partners with whom they lived. And that was way before it was popular to support and accept gay rights.

  13. I am an openly gay christian. I grew up as the son of Salvation Army officers. I was taught that Christians love ALL people.

    I have worked for TSA in many capacities. At that time in my life, I was “in the closet.” I left TSA when it was discovered that I had an alternative lifestyle.

    The officer that made these statements must surely have been expressing his own beliefs, and NOT that of TSA. Although TSA does not condone homoseuality, it DOES show true Christian compassion and respect for ALL humankind.

    I worship at a church that expresses Christ’s acceptance of all. I am proud to be a Christian, and proud to be who GOD made me to be.

    • This is quite a collection of contradictory claims!

      You “left” the TSA when “it was discovered” you were gay? What the heck does that mean? Did you choose leave rather than face the discrimination and humiliation that the TSA would inflict on you according to their policy and practices?

      Then you claim the TSA shows “true Christian compassion and respect for ALL humankind.” Again I have to ask what the heck that is supposed to mean? You seem to be saying that practicing bigotry and discrimination is Christian.

      Your attempted defense of TSA is inexplicable and irrational.

      • I am not saying that at all. I left TSA because I didn’t want to live the life of a hypocrite any longer. I was never rejected nor humiliated because of who I am by TSA. Because of their beliefs, I chose to find another house of worship where my partner and I could worship God together and openly.

        All I am saying, is that my personal experiences with TSA were not ones of discrimination or bigotry. My family has always accepted me for who I am, and they are the best example of Christian love that I know.

        • If they were not so discriminatory and full of hate, then you would not have had to lead a life as a hypocrite now would you. By your own admission you chose to leave to avoid being a hypocrite which only goes to show what type of people they are.

      • you appear to be the bigot in this conversation

    • You left when you came out as being gay, that kind of says it all. Unfortunately 1 bad apple spoils the rest, the Salvation Army appointed the spokesman and he has made them look bad, just like 1 bad group in a neighbourhood spoils the area. They may do good work I have been fortunate that I have never been in such a desperate situation where I have needed to reach out to a charity, but with all the horror stories you hear now I would never turn to a religious charity if I was in need, mainly because I am not religious so would be pretty hypocritical of me, but 2 you hear horror stories of being told to convert to that religion and that you must believe to receive help. I was granted the ability of being able to think for myself thus given a certain rein of freedom and would refuse to be hounded to convert in order to receive help.
      You have contradicted yourself as if they were fully accepting as christians and christians are to love all men and accept all men then you should have felt no need to leave!

  14. I intend to drop notes into TSA buckets that say:

    <blockquote cite= "I would ordinarily be donating $20.00 or so into your bucket as my standard donation for the good works you do. But not this year, as I do support gay rights and gay marriage.
    Be sure and let us know when you have come to terms with your own inner gay.”>

  15. This is the prologue to the position statement on sexuality and homosexuality published on the Sally Army UK’s site:

    “Positional statements are guidelines for membership of The Salvation Army. They are based on scripture and from this we have expectations of how our Officers (ministers of religion) and church members lead their lives.

    We do not expect the same level of adherence from non-members and do not condemn those who do not hold the same beliefs or exclude them from attending our church services, working for us or receiving our support.

    We oppose any discrimination, marginalisation or persecution of any person. We find no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for any reason.

    Anyone who comes to The Salvation Army will receive assistance based solely on their need and our capacity to provide help. We work with people who are vulnerable and marginalised across the world, and offer very practical help, unconditional assistance and support regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

    We employ a large number of people of other faiths, cultures and varying sexual orientation and we respect and value the rich diversity of our staff and the communities in which we serve.”


    Looks a bit difference to the experiences that some US residents have had from their branch of the Sally. Not that I have any experience or have heard of any from anyone else that would reflect on whether these values are fully acted upon.

  16. And they seriously think this is ad is Christian?! I am almost sure that the workers at the Salvation Army are oh so faithful to the 10 commandments… I bet plenty of them have done things such as cheating or stealing. God said “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour ” accept those around you, even if they’re gay. God did not create people of hate, therefore these people are not Christians and are using this religion as an excuse to be hateful towards others. I hope they know they will be losing a lot if business, especially my family’s, who is very generous towards the Salvation Army.

  17. For me there is a more personal point of view, when I was a teenager my neighbors were salvationists, and at chirstmas I would help them and I saw first hand that ALL the money that went into those red pots went directly to help people who needed help, Then I grew up and Came out. I am a Happy Well adjusted Partnered Gay Man and I still would put money into the red pot at christmas time because I KNEW that the money did good.
    I could Justify their anti gay stance based on their Religious beliefs and yet could also justify donating to them because I KNEW for a fact that the money went to help those in need.
    However to now hear that they feel gay parents should be killed. The line has been drawn and no more will they get money from me. This is not christianity this is Judgment at its worst, a feeling of Superiority because they are following gods law, which is a Load of CRAP. You cant call yourself Christian and Mean it and agree with HATE. Sad really because they Do good work, But to do good work and JUDGE others based on sexuality is really Not doing good work. So I will Find another more OPEN charity to donate my money to, One that Helps ALL those in need Not just those they deem Worthy.

  18. Let’s stand right next to them with our signs and a money bucket collecting donations doing the same thing but also showing the love for gays! I’m not gay but I know what it likes to be happy and I elusive everyone deserve to be happy we’re all just humans here

  19. All I can say is that this is another instance where religion is destroying lives. Believe what you want to believe, but remember every word in the bible is outdated fiction and lifestyles evolve just as we as humans have. I understand that some people feel the need to live their life under the rules set out in their “religious bible” but really guys, in this day and age no one should be discriminated if someone needs help whether food, shelter or advice it should be given. Remember this is only one of many charities that pledge to help the needy, I would not be surprised if every charity has their undisclosed files, which would horrify the majority of us.
    But I agree if you believe in equal rights for all do not donate to the SA as they clearly do not believe in equal rights for all as mentioned by their spokesman, so whether you have worked for them or not and say otherwise, the baseline belief behind the charity is that they do not believe in anything other than straight love, but to go on record stating that those who are gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, transexual or anything other than straight should be killed along with their parents is ridiculous and Major Andrew Craibe should be brought up on charges and prosecuted for his hate speech.
    Also remember that the bible has been translated and reinterpreted many times therefore many versions, we could create a new bible but adapt it to this day and age in 100 years time it would be seen as the current bible now. Each version would have been adapted and interpreted by the people who wrote it at the time, also remember that it would have been passed on verbally initially as well remember the game chinese whispers every one interprets things differently and then they adapt it to their interpretation. So please stop living in your little religious bubbles where all you can do is look down on people who don’t follow your rules and enter the real world where not everything is rosy but we all do what we can to survive, you bubble will burst and then you will be left lost and very disillusioned but where will you turn after you have exiled yourself from everyone else? Religion is the cause for most wars which cause millions of deaths of innocent people, instigated by a difference of opinion in beliefs and religion to me this is unacceptable and disgusting. But yet every second of every day people preach their religious hate speeches trying to convert people not only to religion but to try and get them to stop sinning because they are not straight therefore living in sin which is ridiculous as far as I am concerned each to their own, we are individuals for a reason if we were all the same we would have no medical breakthroughs, new technology etc and life would be boring, so stop living in the dark ages and adapt to the new age.

  20. If the Salvation Army wants to argue against us in the LGBT community and use the bible as their reasoning, that’s fine, but let me point out a few other things the bible says you should be considered unclean for doing. Leviticus 11:7 says that among other animals eating or touching the carcass of a dead pig makes you unclean, there goes football. Leviticus 19:18 says, and I quote the NIV version “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.” Leviticus 19:19, NIV version again “Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.” The last of these decrees would put nearly the entire population today in trouble.

    I bring these up as examples that if you are going to use the bible, and a few obscure lines to be exact, to punish a whole sect of the population, you need to look at the rest of the bible with the same level of scrutiny, to do otherwise is to be hypocritical.

  21. Read the interview it’s TSA’s mandate for of their dept in the organization to spread hatred of anyone who will not fall in line with their beliefs sounds like Nazi Germany to me.

  22. I do not give any money to the Salvation Army anymore because of these types of attitudes. I have many gay friends and relatives and I will not tolerate anyone implying they are not worth loving or are not equal to everyone else in society. There are many other charities in my community that treat every single person with love and respect so I choose to give donations to those groups now. I personally find it infuriating that any modern organization can still point to the laws in Leviticus as a justification for discriminating against gay people. That entire part of the Bible is so out of sync with modern society it’s not even funny. In addition to the laws Nicholas points out, what about the laws outlined in Leviticus that say anyone who commits adultery should be stoned to death? Or anyone who blasphemes should be put to death? I daresay there are WAY more adulterers and blasphemers in this country that LGBT people. Does the TSA think that we should seriously still follow those old laws and kill adulterers and people who curse? Cherry picking parts of the Bible that back up bigoted points of view really irritate me. Until the TSA and every other group who constantly spouts Leviticus as a justification for discrimination starts to advocate following every single law in Leviticus I will not take you seriously (although advocating following every law in Leviticus would be insane). Hey, what about instead of trying to pick out old laws out of Leviticus to back up bigotry, how about following the teachings of Jesus? “As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” The end. Jesus didn’t say “Love one another–except for gay people or people I don’t agree with.”

    please check out this article before deciding .
    I fully support the GLBT – and would gladly boycott any organization that hinders human rights. After seeing this and the original article, I did some researching. I found there is more to this story.

  24. What I don’t understand is, there isn’t any “god” we were created from aliens from a far off planted, and people shouldn’t be believing in a FACK book like the holly bible!!! THERE IS NO PROF OF ANY GOD!!!!! What created us was the earth it self, no make believe human!!!

  25. This is not how One reports news. You obviously have a bias against them. Your last article was basically a fallacy, stating that TSA wants to put us to death, which was a bald-faced lie. News that pulls the wool over reader’s eyes should not be payed attention to.

    While I agree TSA should not discriminate, and since they do should lose funding, that still means hundreds of people will have to go hungry or freeze because TSA locations that DONT discriminate will now get less funding because some fired-up “editor” thought following Fox’s trend of using inflammatory misinformation was a good model to adopt.

    This article doesnt undo the last article, which i just found on a LGBT page where the people were using it as truth. It just shows that people will not read further into things, and thus misinformation like this can be extremely harmful.

  26. I don’t really care what TSA stands for. I am a gay male and just because they have turned and discriminated against people for their sexual orientation which is completely wrong in any “Love thy neighbor as thyself” or “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” religion, doesn’t mean that I’m not going to donate to the Salvation Army. I do believe that if someone attacks my beliefs does not mean that I’m going to turn around and attack them which hurts people in need. They have turned those from the LGBT community away including myself, but I am going to take the higher ground and not turn them away, but focus on our common belief of charity and giving to those who need help. All it takes is people respecting other’s beliefs regardless, whether they are different beliefs than yours and if they have personally attacked your beliefs. Take the higher ground. Christians have been attacked in the past, so has the Jewish community, the African American community, Women, and those in an Interracial Marriage. Everyone has been attacked in the past, and everyone sees that as wrong including me, so I’m not going to be one to attack anyone else and all those who have been discriminated against before should help those who are being discriminated against now.

  27. To hell with the Starvation Army. I just hope that Goodwill actually means good will.

  28. The Salation army folks I have met are dedicated to serving people and spreading the gospel. Sometimes there differences in the way scripture expresses doctrine and the way people try to teach it. I’m going to repeat a former post here. If anyone has a problem understanding id I will re-address the issue. There seems to be a major failure to communicate here. The text referenced in Romans is an explanation of the situation the church members were creating for themselves. The Apostle Paul was trying to make it clear that true followers of Jesus Christ will follow him in their daily life. If they (we) continue in sin they (we) are not the children of God. Those who are not the children of God will face both physical and spiritual death. They (we) continue in sin that God finds abominable and therefore they (we) deserve both physical and spiritual death. There is no, I repeat no, command for Christians to judge or execute anyone in the new covenant (testament). Read Matthew 7:1-5 It begins with “ Judge not …” then explains why. Read the “lord’s prayer”. The part about “forgive us our trespasses …”, Why does it say that…?
    People who make these uninformed doctrinal errors into problems are simply in need of education (on both sides of the issue).

  29. This actually makes me sick. I have friends who are gay and damn right I support them. I’m a christian that literally grew up in the church with my mother being a sunday school teacher there. Hell I was reading and in the Choir before I even hit puberty. Hell- we supported them forever and if we knew this you’re damn right we wouldn’t of. I have family that are gay, friends that are gay. Who the hell cares who you love? God? didn’t we grow up hearing the preachers say ‘God LOVES all his children!’ hell if he didn’t want Gays why the hell did he create them? because you christian extremist should have figured out by now that sexual orientation isn’t a choice you’re born either loving the opposite gender or the same. Its not rocket science guys, grow up!

  30. i feel compelled to say this…… i was thinking. perhaps making up a host of little papers with his message on them…. as an open and Christ loving lesbian, supporting the salvation army goes against my religious principals…… folding them up and then placing them into as many red kettles as i can find. i hate that i am only good for assistance as long as i am not openly gay. how sad this is

  31. Please stop with your self serving gay agenda. Why don’t you focus your time & energy on something that benefits ALL mankind & not just your selfish “accept me” in your face attitude. NO one cares that you’re gay!! Be as tolerant of others as you want them to tolerate YOU!! Be careful, YOUR hipocrisy is showing.

    • There is no “gay agenda”; there is only an equality agenda, and you oppose it.

      Why don’t you focus your time & energy on something that benefits ALL mankind & not just your selfish demand that the government force everyone to live as you choose to live.

      Be as tolerant of others as you want them to tolerate YOU!! Be careful, YOUR hipocrisy is showing.

  32. I think that there are a lot of ridiculous things being said in this thread. The point is don’t support the salvation army if their beliefs, don’t agree with your beliefs. There is no question that The Salvation Army is anti LGBT, They have openly said that they do not support the LGBT community. I would not give money to a politician that was against the LGBT, I think this is the same sort of thing; you just don’t endorse what you don’t agree with. Furthermore not donating doesn’t denote hatred for the Salvation Army. Its not about hate, I do not hate the Salvation Army! I just don’t agree with them on this. For me not donating money to them is my way of saying I don’t support your Organization because you discriminate.

    Do some research before you go into sheep mode for fuck sake…


  35. While I disagree with the way TSA is going about business, I do not fully disagree with what they are saying. Were it my business/outreach to run I would support the LGBT community with donations but would make my religious standings clear. The Bible, the religious book on which they stand, does clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination, but Jesus also showed that he loves all where they are.

    I believe they should follow the example that Jesus has set and love them where they are, without sacrificing their morals, and allow those who have not yet been saved to want to come to Him instead of enforcing their own beliefs by not allowing those in need access to precious resources. THE DENYING OF ASSISTANCE is an act of pharisees who want to appear more holy than they are… acts of love and acceptance in hope of redemption are what true Christians are called to.

    • You are right in your thinking anon, i often get called out on things because i am a homosexual man, and i am a Christian, who does not agree with Gay Marriage as a whole, but thats just my 5 pence!

      • I thought the idea of being a Christian was to gain salvation and enter the kingdom of heaven through Christ Jesus. You are aware that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven? How can you call yourself a Christian when you don’t follow Gods law and cannot enter the kingdom of heaven through Christ Jesus?

  36. Look, either you believe in the Bible or you don’t. When someone picks and chooses which parts of the Bible are worth taking to heart and which ones aren’t; they are essentially saying that sometimes God means what He says and it’s important and right but sometimes He says untrue things that we don’t need to pay any attention to. To do such a thing is pure manipulation for personal satisfaction. If you’re going to use the teachings of the Bible to hate homosexuals then you also need to apply it to other situations – like stoning people and taking concubines. The level of hypocrisy is astounding.

  37. I am horrified to think that an organization like this stands against anyone period! Christian, Catholic I don’t care what religion you are, no one person has the right to judge anyone!!! I always believed that GOD does the judging!!! I know it sickens me to the core of my sole that these people can stand out there every Christmas and ring that bell for donations, but clearly discriminate against certain people! I know they will never get another dime out of me period!!!! Anyone who condone’s this will never get my business either! You can bet your life on that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just saying

  38. Julie JC Sullivan knows it all!!! Botch!

  39. Oh come on Trolls of the world, you are far too predicable with the “fk Jesus” Fk Sally Army, and anyone who dares say you cant drink from the furry love cup, or the elephant trunk of love. If it was “true” it shows one very small minority, and they have been dealt with if i remember rightly. The pathetic attitude some of you have is laughable, and if i was on the fence of deciding if LGBT was wrong, you sure help tip things over the edge, but im not. I am an out and out man who has sex with men, in my mind i am a Christian, but not a strong follower, and i always donate to the Salvation army on a monthly basis, and i help them on Christmas day when they serve the homeless a meal, and they dont seem to have a questionnaire at hand, and ask the hungry what preference they have in life. They dont throw away my donated clothes, because i might of had rumpy pumpy in them a week ago. It is time for a lot of LGBT bullies to grow up, and be tolerant of others, like you expect of them! There i am done now, i wont look no more, as “Sheeple” really piss me off

  40. THIS is totally ridiculous!!!! I patronize your store quite.often. I will second thought if I EVER go in there again!!!!!!

    • Who are you talking to Darlene? Do you honestly think the Salvation Army will be checking the comments and give a crap about your threat of not going there?? Do some research into the matter, its making you look silly

  41. I have always donated to the SA. Never Again.
    This is not God’s love. Jesus loves all sinners. Even you.
    Jesus was asked: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Matt 22:36-40 (Amp)

  42. I am a salvationist, i have served people with food parcels, looked after there kids at Sunday school and spoke to many people. Do you really think before I do any of that I ask what their sexual orientation is? No, that would just be silly! I would help anyone that walked into our center. As for these cases of being turned away,I get annoyed to hear them as in the salvation army there are a lot of people who are really old school and traditional and have to follow all the rules in the army that mainly just get in the way of serving God. I feel that this is the case with these examples and if you went to center like the one I go to you would feel accepted and loved no matter what. We’re like a big family and always ready for new members to join. I feel you have have made the situation worse by twisting this officers words, some people clearly need a dictionary to look up spiritual and physical!

    • Do you believe the Salvation Army web site?

      “Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.”$FILE/homosexuality.pdf

      The SA does not consider same-sex couples “equal” to opposite sex couples. You don’t need a dictionary to understand that.

      • Yes I agree with it, and yes I treat everyone equally! Other ppl have their own opinion and I respect that, andI am definitely not going to leave anyone out, god loves us all, it’s us that need to decide if we love him and what he wants us to do! a spiritual death is where our relationship with god is ruined by a sin in our lives but I believe that god can transform us, and forgive us! If you don’t have the opinion that it is a sin fine by me! But I’d welcome anyone into our church anytime no matter what!

  43. Have you no honor? “Here is a quote from a gay man — Kaylin-Vincente-DuLuissey — a 26-year-old New York socialite who is uber-involved in many charities both in the USA and in Europe.

    “I knew this absurd story would rise again as soon as Christmas grew closer. Notwithstanding the fact that this was exposed as a hoax years ago, why is this nonsense still circulating?

    “The Salvation Army is profoundly and deeply sincere about giving with a blind eye. ‘Volunteers’ who have come forth to say otherwise and put forth this staged image and story, are unhappy and troublesome people who would do something like this to whomever they worked for simply because they’re crazy or unhappy people. I’ve know a few of the people behind this smear campaign and they have always turned out to be those who were dismissed and prosecuted by the Salvation Army for stealing donations – but you will not read about that truth because the gay agenda is often very mean-spirited. They’re viciously selfish, to put it bluntly, and they’d rather make a spectacle of themselves and ruin everything for everyone than to actually lean in and help anyone.”

    “I am a Belgian living in New York City, and my family is heavily involved in charity fundraising. I can tell you without hesitation that there is no anti-gay policy within the Salvation Army whatsoever and this is simply a smear campaign by Christian bashers and social misfits who hate the entire Holiday theme. They’re selfish gay attention-seekers and people who are not happy unless they are causing mayhem.”

  44. rkossik, you attacked Carla and Kathy for being intolerant hypocrites. That’s ironic.

    Now I take no pleasure in pointing out your hypocrisy, but let’s just be honest. If, like me, you worked in your state’s local LGBT caucus and in my case through my church, to advocate for marriage equality because it was the right thing to do, you know that probably a majority of LGBT activists are not at all tolerant and indeed want to force Christians to not just be more tolerant of homosexuals, but to force them to relinquish many of their rights in the area of freedom of religion. Almost every meeting, event, or encounter, I’d keep running into many, many committed LGBT activists and less active gay citizens who were viciously and unapologetically, anti-Christianity, and were eager for the day when the tables would be turned and they could start attacking their “enemies.” You and I both know that’s the case in many LGBT circles. To deny it is like denying that most Tea Party Birthers hate Obama. Attacking the Salvation Army’s views on homosexuality, when they don’t make those views a basis for discrimination, and conveniently ignoring how they serve people regardless of differences in views – is VERY misleading of you, and not very tolerant. Whose the hypocrite again?

    The Salvation Army repeatedly reached out to explain their policies and views to the LGBT community after the unfortunate radio show incident even while they were still being attacked with lies and photoshopped images. Here’s an excerpt:

    There are two issues about which most people are generally concerned. These include:
    • First, a photo-shopped image of two Salvation Army kettle workers below a kettle sign that reads: “Gays Not Allowed.”
    • Second, comments from a 2012 radio interview in which an Australian Salvation Army officer agreed with the comment that, “gays should be put to death.”
    The kettle workers photo is a complete and utter fabrication. It is false witness. And, those volunteers don’t deserve to be icons of hate.
    The radio comments, however, are of greater concern. It is important to note that the Army around the world immediately rejected those comments and made public statements against them. We stand by the rejection of those comments still. We sincerely apologize to the LGBTQ community and to our clients, employees, donors and volunteers for the offence caused by this misrepresentation of the Army’s views.

    If that wasn’t enough, the testimony of LGBT employees and recipients of SA services speak for themselves:

    This one also explains their non-discrimination in employment and that they DO provide domestic partner benefits since about 2005:

    Forgive me for suspecting that you either know the Salvation Army’s true statements and what the testimonials say, but chose to ignore them because they don’t fit what YOUR AGENDA is, or you simply took on faith what you read/heard from LGBT media without checking your sources. Afterall, why bother with the truth when you can just join your friends in “attacking the enemy.” The truth is, the LGBT community has many big time haters who DO have an agenda. Namely, to target the Salvation Army and other groups like it because they’re Christian, and they view all of Christianity as their enemy. It’s disgraceful that they’d push their agenda by attacking groups that serve the needy, and have no interest in a fight. Many (mostly atheists and agnostics) in the LGBT community are eager to punish and/or destroy religion, Christianity in particular. Meanwhile, people like Carla, Kathy and other Salvationists and their supporters will continue to serve God by serving our neighbor the way Jesus taught….and defending their constitutionally protected, intellectually honest views. And doing it with a lot more class than the people stirring up this controversy.

    • Wow, that’s a really long post, and almost everything is wrong!

      I never said said anything about wanting tolerance. I was throwing Carla’s own words about tolerance and hypocrisy back at her.

      Whining about tolerance is stupid. I don’t want tolerance; I want equality. People who oppose equality are bigots, and I am VERY INTOLERANT of bigots and bigotry.

      Did slaves ask for tolerance when seeking equality? “Master, it would be great if we could have equality and freedom but at the same time I respect and am tolerant of your legal right to own people.” Presumably slave owners were whining about how their lifestyle was being threatened because slaves were demanding “special treatment”, which in reality was wanting to treated like everyone else. We are demanding equality, not tolerance!

      Then you try to argue with me about photos and the hateful public statements made by the top public relations officer for the Salvation Army in Australia. Those are mere distractions. You’re just trying to divert attention from the my actual point, that the official position statements of the SA confirm that their core values are discriminatory. I’ve repeatedly quoted the official SA statement on homosexuality. What could be more truthful than that?

      I really don’t care if the reason you want to practice discrimination is because you’re a bigot yourself, or if you believe you’re commanded to be discriminatory because your god is a bigot.

      • Ahhh, I see I’ve struck a nerve. At least you’ve unwittingly admitted through your “actual point” that you’re the intolerant bigot. Bigot: n. an obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion, political theory, etc. Go back and review you’re statements and those of the Salvation Army. Now try to remember Civics 101. All religions are entitled to their particular theological views. And all movements are entitled to their particular political views. The Salvation Army is not “intolerant” just because you disagree with them, any more than you are intolerant for not believing in their religion because of your political views. But here’s where you go askew. The Salvation Army serves ALL the needy without discrimination. They employ people without discrimination. If any of their clergy/religious positions do discriminate on the basis of their theology, that’s constitutionally protected freedom of religion! You don’t get to be the Gay Thought Police, forcing people of faith to accept gay marriage as inherently virtuous. I and people of faith like me fought along side our brothers and sisters in the LGBT community for equality under the law and tolerance in society. And now, after years of experiencing the effects of intolerance, you and LGBT activists like you want to just turn around and “stick it” to Christian organizations who have never done anything but serve you and all people? Oh sorry, ONE GUY in Australia says intolerant words, is condemned by the Salvation Army leaders and as far as I can tell all their volunteers, but that’s cause enough for the next LGBT Crusade??? Sorry rkossik, YOUR God is not a bigot, but YOUR politics IS. And you know it.

        • So being intolerant of bigots makes me a bigot? LOL!

          You have freedom of religion to live YOUR life however you choose. Using your religion as an excuse to oppress others makes you a bigot. THAT is Civics 101.

  45. So, is everyone a saying that, as a Christian, I have to support something that is condemned in the bible? A lot of people want to call Christians, hypocrites, but then expect us to be just that, or we are homophobes or haters. I don’t believe we are a Christian Nation if people expect us to embrace Homosexuality. The Salvation Army does not embrace heroine addicts or meth addicts either. But, they will help you if you want to change your ways. Unless you are saying that if a government funds a program then all open adulterers, homosexuality, child molesters, should have equal access. But, what does that say about the people and the government? Whatever happened to “In God We Trust”? Or, is it that we trust in whatever we deem acceptable at the moment, regardless of what God and the Bible says?

    • Hey Charles no one says you have to accept anything only that you do not have the right to stand in the way of others because of what you believe. That being said, have you ever worn clothes made of more than one fabric? Guess what your so called book of God says you can’t do that. Not to mention you can not prove without a shadow of a doubt that the Bible was in fact words passed down from your god and not just a bunch of idiots who wanted things done how they saw fit

      • Dan, when you laugh at Lev. 19:19 and other culture-dependent commands you’re only displaying your own ignorance of the context for that which you criticize, which makes your criticism pretty weak. Not to mention that denigrating something you don’t take the time to understand is the height of arrogance. Leviticus 19:19 may appear to be an unreasonable, even non-sensical command:

        “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

        But what you don’t know is that these and other prohibitions were designed to forbid the Israelites from engaging in the fertility cult practices of the Canaanites. The Canaanites believed in sympathetic magic, the idea that symbolic actions can influence the gods and nature…. Mixing animal breeds, seeds, or materials was thought to “marry” them” so as magically to produce “offspring,” that is, agricultural bounty in the future.

        So the command is unreasonable only if it is unreasonable in its context, and if you don’t know the context you’re in no position to judge it unreasonable.

        Likewise, some biblical commands are not so culture- and context-dependent. We can recognize them by how frequently and in how many different contexts they are presented, and by the strength of their connection to culture-transcending principles. By those tests, Leviticus 19:19 is clearly tied to one time and one place, unlike commands relating to (for example) love for God and neighbor, honesty, integrity, and sexual behavior.

        As for the reliability of Scripture, again you show your ignorance. Literary Historians have more reliable ancient texts for the Bible than for ANY other writings. That is due in part to the supreme reverence that the Jews held for their sacred texts. The New Testament accounts are indeed accurate to what was originally written. In Jesus’ day, an entire respected professional class of scribes was devoted to the painstaking detail of transcribing what had been received from God through Moses and the prophets on parchment by hand. The Gospels and epistles circulated in Jewish Christian communities inherited this method, and they were reproduced in the same fashion. Literary historians can however demonstrate which ancient texts were written by, how did you say it, folks who wanted things done their way? And despite all the efforts of people and scholars with a grudge against God, the Bible stands the test, whereas the Gnostic gospels and other heresies and imitators have been exposed for every generation.

        • Again just because it was written on paper in ancient times does not prove that it is the word of God and not written by a man who wanted to see things done his own way. As far context people interpret the context in many ways and you can not claim that is was designed for one specific reason simply to have it come out in your favor just as another reason some Christians are called hypocritical is the pic and chose what scripts they follow that work in their favor and ignore the rest. Also you say the bile says love thy neighbor and judge not but yet every chance you get that is exactly what you people do you judge when it is not your place to do so. If your god is the judge then leave the judging to him as what others do does not have a direct impact on your life or interfere with your life so stop interfering in others lives and if they are to be judged they will be by their God and not some big mouth so called Christians trying to play god.

  46. What, now you want to punish those who do not put God in Gay marriage? Well, you better know this, there are MANY gays who dont support Gay marriage either, and they LOVE their straight families and parents. There are such things as those who do have an evil agenda in the gay community that most dont know about, NOBODY likes any extreamists, and these so called militant gay activists ARE JUST AS BAD as the religious ones. Im tellin you, the devil plays on both sides of everything. The ALCU has gone rouge now and even work for Islam to have sheria law here, im a liberal but there are some real stupid ones out there, and in the end , you will loose your head to your own kind, so will the religious ones who wouldnt mind seeing a christianized version of it. Jesus HATES HATES HATES hypocrites and liars and their will be a place in the lake of fire for many. Gay folks dont like being treated badly, well, then dont be like the evil ones and repay the same to them, you will suffer for even more sin, instead of having them forgiven as we have in the past, dont get full of PRIDE, cause you will have a hailstone with your name on it, aimed right at cha.

  47. Missy, I think someone needs a Nap!

  48. missy… lol you say there are many gays who do not support gay marriage… NAME TWO!!! I promise you, you’re bat shit crazy.

  49. Um, isn’t Jesus supposed to love everyone. The bible itself is hypocritical and contradictory.

  50. The ALCU is wearing rouge?…Who’s the ALCU?

  51. Right on, and I thought that it is not up to humans to judge one another but for God to be the one to pass judgement. Guess it’s just too tempting for our kind not to throw human ego into the mix :-/ God loves all the children

  52. @The guy who asked for 2 to be named that don’t support gay marriage. Throw my hat in the pile. I firmly believe in the removal of marriage from the marriage license in that all people must get a civil union because I believe in Separation of Church and State, and since the word marriage has evolved into a religious term, it should not be applied to Government contracts, and people should be licensed to preform legal marriages that requires a separation of church and state.

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